I found some interesting stats recently which didn’t surprise me at all.
A recent French poll asked the question "What religion do you feel closest to?"
Sixty-four per cent of French citizens responded "catholic," 27.6% said "atheist," and 3% said Islam. (20 minutes/fr)
"Many in America and elsewhere often delight in predicting the future of France as an Islamic country. Even in France, many would like us to believe that Islam is about to overcome our culture and way of life. The Le Pen candidacy is partly based on that fear. Back last summer, the Economist’s cover famously headlined “Eurabia” with the Eiffel Tower in the background. Even today, the MSNBC web page has an extensive presentation of “Islam in Europe,” with a link on its home page and France the subject of many of the articles".
Right before 9/11 I was finishing up at university in France and had to complete a piece of work of around 50 000 words on a topic of my own choice. I decided to write about Islam in Lorraine. I was at the University there, an industrial region with a large number of immigrants – for example about 40-50% of the students in the university were North African. It seemed like the smart option anyway, suitably liberal sort of topic, I would score some brownie points just for deciding to investigate the issues of l’integration which was high on the topic list at just about every class I attended.
I was staying in Halls. Most of the students were maghrebins. They were okay. Mostly groups of guys. One of them, Karim, who was like the one guy everyone seemed to respect and was vocally atheist. We would all take lunch in a canteen and he would sit at the top of the table and lecture everyone about the horrors of religion - in particular Islam. It was mostly directed at me. I think id done something stupid like buy a necklace I thought was nice, which had a hand on it. It was called the ‘main de Fatima’ (the hand of Fatima) and was supposed to protect you if you wore it. A lot of the north African girls were wearing one. Id spent a significant amount of time with a girl called Havidah, who lived on an HLM in Metz. She convinced me about the necklace. She was every inch the French chick. But when we stayed at her appartment her mother was as sharp a contrast as you would find between first and third generation immigrants. A sincere and incredibly fearsome woman with henna tattoos practically burned into her face. My eyes were perfect for henna make up apparently. She made me stand in the kitchen and with a typically British inability to be impolite, I allowed her to pull a silver rod through my eyes with dark henna powder on it. It coats the inside of your eye blue and basically achieves the eyes through the burqa look you would expect to find in North Africa. It would cure me of headaches aswell apparently, not that I had any. Her father was elderly and a sweet enough guy who would mostly listen to us all at dinner..
Wow! That's a lot of insight. Thanks for such a revealing view into the French-Muslim social relationship.
All we hear over here on this side of the water, in our major media, is the riots and how many cars were burned by rioting "youth" whom we all know are muslims.
When it comes to womens rights, Islam is truly a retarded doctrine. Many of the people practicing Islam are still members of hunter/gatherer tribes or little removed from that primitive stage of human social evolution, and still practice their primitive rites as part of their religion.
From what you say, a lot of muslims in France are abandoning Islam or at least becoming pretty secular. There's hope.
Rasta
Posted by: Rastaman | January 02, 2008 at 07:44 PM
There is hope. But what worries me most at the moment is that by defining them as muslims we almost turn it into them versus us. We give Islam a cool status which appeals to any bunch of kids who want to be menacing. It needs ridicule. Easier said than done. When i see girls here walk around with their niqabs Im sure it is for theatrical reasons more than a huge desire to be 'subservient to God'. That pisses me off and i haven't yet walked by someone like that without saying something on a piss take level. You don't see that so much here in France.
Posted by: aDM | January 02, 2008 at 10:13 PM
So, you give examples from your student days, round about the time of 9/11.
Point 1
I'd say things have radicalised substantially since then, not least because of 9/11, and the response it brought about.
The response was global by all parties, and reflected strongly in the umma.
Point2
Students always speak fondly of their student days, about what might have been, how good they could have been.
Ever heard the phrase, "The older I get, the better I was", ?
Are you starting early?
Really, aDM, if you're gonna talk about current topics, don't you think you should update your knowledge?
Posted by: Iam who Iam | January 04, 2008 at 02:28 PM
I wouldn't disagree with your first point so the last part of your comment is a bit crap. You seem a bit uptight about all this though.
I think defining people by their religion is still daft and adds to the problem. I also don't think that in light of 9/11 a huge amount has gone on in France as people had hoped it would.
Posted by: aDM | January 04, 2008 at 02:42 PM
Sheesh.
Now I know you must be smoking something extremely distortional.
You think your answer was worth anything? Gawd.
What university was it?
Posted by: Iam who Iam | January 04, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Why are you being such an obnoxious tosser. Any reason to be?
Posted by: aDM | January 04, 2008 at 11:02 PM